The fight for the fabric of our nation: Who won the Treaty Principles Bill hearings?

Saturday, 8 March 2025

History was unfolding before our eyes as hundreds of Kiwis made oral presentations on the Treaty Principles Bill. But if we turned them into two voices, who won? Joel Maxwell does some sewing.

Some of Aotearoa New Zealand’s greatest legal, political, academic, health, activist, youth, grassroots and iwi minds from the past 50 years gathered to take part in the now-completed justice committee hearings into ACT’s Treaty Principles Bill. We might not see its like again.

Unfortunately, most New Zealanders might not have seen it at all, as the greatest minds of a nation shared their ideas while most of us were working.

So, after covering every single hearing - whittled down by Parliament from 16,000-plus speaking requests into 80 hours - we’ve stitched together each side’s argument into two separate voices, melding those supporting ACT leader David Seymour’s bill on one side, and those against on the other.

A clear majority of oral submitters opposed the bill. On one side were professors, doctors, prime ministers, King’s counsels - on the other, mostly regular people, many saying they had a connection to this land, regardless of their heritage.

The hundreds of speakers were curated from a record 300,000-plus written submissions.

What follows is a composite of voices from each side, recorded during the hearings, to form two separate presentations: Speaker one and Speaker two. The quotes contained within each presentation include attribution to those who made them as part of their oral submissions.

So, if the hearings were two voices, who won?

Speaker one.

I am here to support this bill.

Once upon a time there used to be a mantra that to win elections you needed to focus on the economy. Now, it’s the culture, stupid. And Treaty overreach is this new cultural front.

As for a Treaty partnership: That’s not mentioned, let alone defined, anywhere in the Treaty - it was invented by courts. (Ruth Richardson, former National finance minister)

Furthermore, let me say this: We live in a clown world, and something needs to be done about it. We are plagued by Treatyism. To live under Treatyism is to endure constant stifling, pretentious moralising. It injects itself everywhere and insists itself on everyone. (Thomas Newman, Hobson’s Pledge trustee)

You see, in 1908 my grandmother was literally starved out of southern Ireland and, aged 14, headed to New Zealand, alone. Not once did I hear her complain about her plight that forced her out of her homeland.

Looking backwards has created a nation of racial division, victim-hood and ongoing settlement dependence. I want my children and grandchildren to be one under the law. (Michael Fox)

But, I must also mention that I’m a descendant of Henry Williams who actually translated the Treaty into Māori - he was a pacifist and missionary who loved and respected Māori. So I support this bill because of the clarity it will bring to all New Zealanders (William Ludbrook, great-great grandson)

It must also be said: I’ve got two little girls, and probably my biggest fear is that they might not be treated equally.

Healthcare’s a big one for me too: I’ve got two older parents. I want to make sure they’re being treated equally, they’ve paid their taxes, they’ve done all their hard work.

I talk to my little girls and they tell me there’s a division out there and it’s not getting better. (Fraser Mackenzie)

Before I continue, I should mention my nana was a Kiwi, my grandfather was Croatian, mum, dad and myself were all Kiwi. I know no other land other than this. I am of this land.

This bill is not designed to replace the Treaty, it is designed to merely update it, like we do with the apps on our phones, and computers where we need to make performance improvements.

This is needed because the courts injected the idea of principles into the Treaty and they failed to define them. (John Sanko)

You see, I’m a son, I’m a father, I’m a husband, I’m a farmer. Where I live is my tūrangawaewae. And I’m concerned about racial division in this country.

My great-grandfather arrived here with nothing: but what if he’d married a lady of Māori bloodlines? Would that qualify my family as they’ve moved through generations to have special treatment? (David Clark)

After all, I’m a concerned individual, father, and grandfather. And let me say - The Treaty of Waitangi doesn’t have any principles, it has three articles.

The courts said the Treaty was like a partnership, which triggered principles being fabricated out of thin air, giving superior rights to anyone with the slightest bit of Māori ancestry. Overseas they call this racism, or apartheid. (Wayne Palleson)

Did I mention, I’m 78 years old, fourth generation living in Christchurch? The latest interpretations of principles promoted by Maori organisations seem to follow the dictates of Animal Farm: All people are equal but some are more equal than others. Without the legislated Treaty principles, the future for New Zealand is bleak. (Alister Gardiner)

Besides, the bill wouldn’t alter or amend the Treaty but sit outside it (Lesley McTurk). Equity risks reviving the very division we claim to abhor, pitting Maori against non-Māori in a contest of who is owed what (Felix Cheng). And I’m afraid that we in New Zealand could be headed down this path of ethnic tension and hostility (Ananish Chaudhuri).

In conclusion, my ancestors arrived in this country in 1848, nearly 177 years ago.

I'm 91% Scottish but that’s patently ridiculous, I should be graded 100% New Zealander, or if you like to be colloquial, a fullblooded Kiwi.

I am, tangata whenua. (Peter Williams, broadcaster)

Speaker two

I oppose this bill.

Firstly, let's be clear, this bill puts courts on a collision course with Parliament. There would only be more uncertainty, more litigation required, if it passed. (Mai Chen, barrister, public law expert)

You see, democracy is a harmony of tensions and accountability. This is held in place by the judiciary, the executive, the legislature, by Opposition MPs and by varied MPs in Government. Te Tiriti o Waitangi is another important, healthy, constraint upon the Government. (Tina Ngata, author, researcher)

The Treaty was a bargain between Māori and the Crown that forms the foundation of New Zealand’s constitution. If that foundation is altered, then that must be agreed between Māori and the Crown as the parties to the bargain. (David Bullock lawyer)

So if this bill was ever to become law, it’s basically setting up a much bigger constitutional clash, and do we really need that? Looking around the world, I’d say attempts to create constitutional clashes and constitutional cliffs are not a great idea. (Andrew Geddis, law professor)

After all, this is not about race-based special rights, or individual rights at all. Te Tiriti is about institutional rights. We see institutional rights dotted across the legal system - churches and charities have special tax rights, unions have collective - not individual - rights to strike. Te Tiriti o Waitangi is no different. It’s just about a constitutional right around tino rangatiratanga. (Marlon Drake, lead organiser of Te Ohu Whakawhaunga o Tāmaki Makaurau)

So this bill seeks divisiveness - to fan the flames of a political agenda and vote-seeking, not nation-building at all. (Pita Tipene, Northland Māori leader)

It ignores that Māori are dying. And they’re at the bottom of the waiting list to be told that they’re dying. (Dr Jo Lambert, Council of Medical Colleges)

Māori have higher rates of stroke, heart failure, rheumatic fever hospitalisations, diabetes, and diabetes-related limb amputation, higher suicide rates, and psychosis cases. On average they die up to eight years earlier than non-Māori. This isn’t due to genetic factors, rather, quality of care and how government resources are distributed. (Dr Matt Wheeler, chair of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians’ Māori committee)

I mean, recent research showed the cost of health inequities between Māori and non-Māori adults was $863 million per year! (Michael Baker, professor of public health)

So, the bill’s intention is to fudge the edges and further blur the truth of so-called Māori privilege in Aotearoa.

There is no Māori privilege.

The sad truth is that Pākehā will never have any inkling of the enormity of loss Māori have experienced. The trauma is real. Intergenerational transmission of trauma is real. The pain and anger associated with unresolved trauma is real. And the pathway to healing is by making sure that bills such as this never see the light of day. (Rawiri Wright, co-chair of Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori o Aotearoa)

I think the bill is destroying the fabric of our nation. New Zealanders can and should debate the application of the Treaty principles. But reasonable and decent New Zealanders should cherish and protect the principles themselves. (Justin Tipa, kaiwhakahaere of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu)

After all, the bill’s based on a flawed and misleading translation. The bill distorts tino rangatiratanga, shifting it from a Māori-specific guarantee to a generalised right. The translation fails ethical and professional standards resulting in fundamental inaccuracies. (Jeremy Tātere MacLeod, language champion and expert)

In conclusion, I’ve just performed today at Te Matatini, the Olympics of kapa haka, and seriously, this bill is a breach of the covenant between Māori and Pākehā. Our tūpuna, our ancestors, went into this with good faith and we continue to try and honour those intentions today.

Allowing this bill to continue would nullify all the positive things that have come about from our partnership. We believe we can do better. We call on the Government to reject the bill.

Tēnā koe. (Rangitiaria Tibble, for 2025 Te Matatini champions Te Kapa Haka o Ngāti Whakaue)

– The justice committee considering the submissions has until May 14 to report its findings. A spokesman for parliamentary communications said the more than 300,000 written submissions “will be published in due course”.