Choosing a leader the world needs: Kiwi cardinal on the secrets of the papal conclave

Wednesday, 23 April 2025

New Zealand’s only cardinal, Cardinal John Dew, does not know what to expect inside his first conclave to elect a new pope.

He departs for Rome on Wednesday, and will be the third New Zealander ever to take part.

He has not decided who he will vote for, but said Christian leaders need to focus on other people, not themselves.

When Cardinal John Dew lands in Rome he will hit the ground running.

One hundred and thirty-five of the world’s cardinals - all those under 80 - are descending on the Vatican to elect the new pope, and he needs to start talking to them.

“Before the actual conclave starts, the cardinals have several days of meetings and what we call ‘congregational conversations’. Basically we talk about the needs of the church, the needs of the world today, and, therefore, what kind of person we need to be a leader,” he told reporters at Wellington’s Sacred Heart Cathedral on Wednesday, a few hours before his planned departure.

The conclave is the closed-door meeting in which the 135 cardinal electors will choose the new pope. It takes place in the Sistine Chapel with no contact to the outside world, and will take as long as it takes for a two-thirds majority vote to be reached.

Dew will be the only New Zealander - and only the third New Zealander ever - to take part.

“When we go into lockdown - I really don't know what to expect. But my take is that we have to make it a prayerful time,” he said. “We all stay together in the Domus Sanctae Marthae, and we'll have further conversations beyond the formal ones. You know, what did you think of this morning? And who do you think is the right person?”

Dew can’t say who he hopes will be the next pope, but he does have ideas. “I have a few people that I would like to talk with others about,” he said.

“It will be, you know, what about so and so? And what about so and so? I can't give names, though, because if I did you will all ask when I came back, did you vote for him? And I wouldn't be able to say, because it's a secret.”

However he did say that he hopes the next pope will have similar priorities and characteristics to Pope Francis, who was known for being a humble and progressive leader.

“I think it needs to be someone who is very politically astute and is able to speak out in the world of misinformation and disinformation that we live in,” he said.

“[Pope Francis] knew that it's not about leaders who think they're in a privileged position and tell people what to do. It's about leaders who listen to people and dialogue with them.”

Asked about the pope’s role in an increasingly conflicted world, he said the impact of symbolic actions cannot be overestimated and cited Pope Francis’ tendency to wash the feet of prisoners and Muslim refugees.

A church leader does not need a personality as big as some of the world’s current leaders, he added, but an ability to connect with people.

“We need someone who is interested in people, and does not make it about himself. You know, with some leaders it's all about themselves. But it can't be if you're a Christian leader. For Christian leaders, it's about service,” he said.

Addressing the church’s sexual violence ‘plague’

During his papacy, Pope Francis promised decisive action on sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, including by addressing the culture of deference that enabled cover-ups and an avoidance of accountability. According to Dew, who himself has been investigated for abuse allegations but has not faced charges, it is integral that this work continues.

“That's been a plague on the church, the whole sexual abuse thing … [Pope Francis] set up committees to work on that and to ensure that there are processes around the world for addressing sexual abuse issues, and this would have to continue,” he said.

He added that he is not certain it will in all parts of the world, especially in poorer diocese.

“However, the message is there that everyone is to be responsible, especially in terms of preventing sexual abuse within the church.”