Tova podcast: Police Minister Mark Mitchell rejects gangs are ‘thriving’ under National despite membership higher than under Labour
Friday, 26 July 2024
Tova O’Brien is Stuff’s Chief Political Correspondent and host of the political podcast, Tova. Listen to the latest episode, Money, morale and mobsters, here.
After police pay negotiations broke down, went to independent arbitration and eventually fell in favour of the Government, officers have told the Tova podcast how much damage they believe that’s done to the force, its culture and their morale.
Police from all over New Zealand and of different ranks gave the podcast feedback to relay to Police Minister Mark Mitchell.
Police speak out
“The distrust and disconnect between the executive and the lower constabulary has never appeared so great,” one officer said.
“Most of us are beyond disappointed with this circus from the Government,” said another.
Mitchell listened as their grievances and hurt were aired.
“I feel the Government has totally destroyed morale in the police. They campaigned on the hard work they want us to do but won't even give us the courtesy of backpaying us to when our offer expired. They talked tough on crime but won't pay for it. No one I know at work is interested in taking a [gang] patch for Mark.”
“Morale in the police is shot,” said another, “they broke a perfectly good police department. I once considered this a career I'd stay in until retirement. But now I'm done, I'm looking elsewhere.”
“I am ashamed of the legacy they are leaving behind,” echoed yet another. “They have the opportunity to change by advocating for staff but I don't believe they will. Our job is to detect deception, yet they serve it to us daily, not expecting us to recognise it.”
A final officer said: “Mitchell claims to understand our hardships, but he doesn't advocate for us, and his assertions feel disingenuous.”
Police Minister responds
Mitchell said he’s spent the week visiting as many police stations and speaking to as many staff as he could and most of the feedback he was getting wasn’t about the pay offer or its impact.
“You're very selective in the comments that you choose to bring forward,” Mitchell told the Tova podcast, “there's a lot of positive feedback out there as well.”
Asked if - as a former frontline officer himself - it hurts him to hear what those officers are feeling, Mitchell said he’s sensitive to the comments and that they’re definitely not water off a duck’s back.
“It motivates me … I’ve got to work hard to prove to them that I do have their best interests at heart.”
Mitchell admitted that in his “heart of hearts” he would have loved to recognise and pay police a lot more.
$180,000 pay cut to join the force?
If Mitchell were to leave politics and return to police with the 13 years experience he once had as an officer and his Armed Offenders Squad qualifications, he would be earning about $117,000 in today’s money.
He wouldn’t say whether he thought that was a good salary for an officer with more than a decade’s experience tasked with the most dangerous firearms incidents police face, but did say he was paid less and had to budget when he was in police: “I was very happy with my salary.”
As Police Minister he now earns nearly $300,000 and Mitchell says he would “absolutely” take a near $180,000 pay cut to go back and be a frontline police dog handler. “There are many days where I’d love to be back on the frontline.”
Gangs “thriving” under National?
Back when he was opposition spokesperson for Police, Mitchell regularly drew on the National Gang List to make the point that gang membership and prospects were booming under the last Labour government.
In April 2023, he put out a press release proclaiming that“since Labour came to power in 2017, the number of gang members has grown from 5343 to 8607.”
In July 2023 he followed up with new data showing the List had grown to 9100.“This data shows that gangs have thrived under a Labour Government that has completely turned a blind eye to law and order and rising crime.”
Asked on the Tova podcast for the latest figures, Mitchell didn’t appear to be as across them as he was in opposition. He said he would need to check: “I haven’t had an update on that.”
But earlier this month he responded to a parliamentary question from Labour’s police spokesperson saying the number of current prospect and patched gang members in June was 9198.
That’s more than the 9100 in July last year when he said gangs were thriving under Labour.
Mitchell rejected that meant gangs were doing the same under his watch. “The gangs certainly aren't thriving under our government.”
Despite regularly using the gang list as a political tool in opposition Mitchell refused to put a target on reducing the number of gang members on that list, saying it was simply a tool that police use and that he didn’t have any control over it.
Nor would he commit to reducing the number of gang members to 2017 levels when Labour first took office. “I would like to anticipate that it will start to flow through in time that joining a gang will not be something that has been as attractive as it has been over the last five or six years.”
Mitchell said he’d met gang leaders recently and they had suggested to him that they too want to change.
Police Gang Unit struggling to staff up?
When Mitchell and Police Commissioner Andrew Coster announced a new Police Gang Unit in May they said operations would start on July 1.
Coster estimated about 25-30 people would staff the new national unit.
Asked how staffing was coming along, Mitchell said the last he’d heard was they had only filled five key positions, but said police were working as hard and fast as they could to staff the units.
It’s not the only staffing issue police and the government are facing.
In January Mitchell was forced to correct the record in Parliament after saying it would take three years to recruit 500 new police officers. National’s coalition agreement with NZ First said the parties would make good on that promise within the first two years.
500 extra cops a broken promise?
Mitchell said he wouldn't resign if he can’t make good on the promise by November next year and insists the Government is on track.
“Numbers are always tough without a doubt, but we’re committed to that, and the police have got a plan. And I'm confident we can deliver the 500. We're motivated to deliver an additional 500 police officers,” Mitchell told the podcast.
In November 2023 there were 10,211 police officers; by November next year Mitchell promises 10,711 in the muster.
The problem is that last November there were also 167 sworn police vacancies, but Mitchell will not commit to filling those vacancies on top of the 500.
Asked if that means his Government is actually only committing to 333 additional police officers, Mitchell blamed the previous government.
“That's their responsibility, talk to them about that… That was on the previous government, not us… we took the numbers on the day, and we will deliver an additional 500.”
Police want some of the 500 in call centres
Police are planning to shift their focus away from mental health and family harm callouts to free up resources.
In official advice to the minister, Police are proposing the establishment of a national phone triage service for non-emergency family harm demand.
They see this as an opportunity to allocate some employees within the Government’s investment of 500 additional officers.
But Mitchell is refusing to let Police co-opt the 500 frontline officers into call centres which he considers “operational support” rather than frontline.
Asked if he’s considering allocating some of those 500 to answer calls, Mitchell was firm: “No, that's 500 frontline police officers, sworn police officers that have the ability to and have the power of arrest.”
To hear whether Police Minister Mark Mitchell can promise that the shift away from mental health and family harm callouts will not result in more people being put at risk, or even threats to life, listen to the Tova podcast now. You can read the second part of this Police series on stuff.co.nz on Saturday.