'Listen to disabled people': Minister Carmel Sepuloni to new Disability Issues Minister Poto Williams

Friday, 8 July 2022

Minister for Disability Issues Poto Williams speaks about the future of the new ministry.

I first interviewed Minister Carmel Sepuloni in 2018, a few months after she became the minister for disability issues. I asked her about what she thought life was like for disabled people in New Zealand and she said it was better here compared to some other countries.

She also said she would be proactive in being inclusive and removing any barriers that exist for disabled New Zealanders. And yes, she actually liked the colour red.

More than four years later, Sepuloni, who recently stepped down from the portfolio passing the baton to her colleague Poto Williams, said she doesn’t have regrets during her time as minister, but admits some things have taken longer than disabled people would like.

Despite promising to remove barriers, disabled people still face huge obstacles in accessible housing, discrimination within immigration policy and inequities to accessing essential disability support funding.

* Hopes high but expectations realistic as Whaikaha – Ministry of Disabled People launches

* Permanent chief executive of new Ministry for Disabled People will be a disabled person

New Minister for Disability Issues, Poto Williams.

“There are challenges as to why you can't move things as quickly as you like,” she said.

“That doesn't necessarily give disabled people peace of mind because they're not seeing the same information necessarily that I am. And so I can understand why, at times, there is impatience.”

Under its new leader, Williams, Whaikaha – Ministry of Disabled People was launched at Parliament on Friday. Williams acknowledged that even though some progress has been made for the 24% of New Zealanders who live with a disability, there is still a lot of work to be done.

Williams said more attention is needed in housing, access employment, decent wages, transportation and access to justice.

“That is the job for us ahead,” she said.

“I think we've come part of the way of the journey,” she said. “But when disabled people can see themselves in leadership roles around the country, I think we will be in a far better position to be able to say where some of these things that are being dealt with in an appropriate and meaningful way.

“But I really see opportunities for disabled people to take much more control of this narrative, of organisations.”

There’s been a loud push in the disability community for the new ministry to be led by a disabled person.

The Public Service Commission has promised that the preferred candidate for Whaikaha chief executive is a disabled person, but they can’t be named yet due to “personal circumstances”.

Former Disability Issues minister Carmel Sepuloni talks about her time with the portfolio. (First published June 30, 2022)

It will be the first time a disabled person has held the role of chief executive in a government ministry, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said in a recorded message at the launch event.

In the meantime, Geraldine Woods was appointed acting chief executive for a limited time. She was co-chair of the Ministry for Disabled People Establishment Governance Group.

Prior to coming into Parliament, Williams worked in the disability sector as a provider. She also worked in health and community health, supporting support workers of disabled people.

Williams became a member of Parliament in 2013 and was also the Labour Party spokesperson for disability issues from 2015 to 2017.

“When I have had interactions and discussions with disabled people, communities, tāngata whaikaha, I have heard for a long, long time their desire to have much more meaningful, intentional discussion and dialogue about the importance of being front and centre of the decisions that impact them the most,” she said.

But she doesn’t pretend to know what a personal, lived experience of disability is like in Aotearoa.

The official launch of Whaikaha – Ministry of Disabled People in the Banquet Hall at Parliament.

“I would not presume to actually voice anything except from my perspective or from the perspective of people who are advocating to me for greater access,” Williams said.

“We have to do much more to create a barrier-free society for our disabled community.”

She’s also supported the Access Matters campaign and getting the accessibility legislation commitment into government manifestos and has been the Parliamentary Champions of Accessibility Alliance Legislation co-chair.

But despite Williams’ previous support of the Access Alliance, neither she nor Sepuloni would commit to ensuring that the proposed access legislation in the Accessibility for New Zealanders Bill would be enforceable.

Williams said instead that “encouraging people to do the right thing and being positive and proactive about this is the way we embed and empower people to do it better”.

Disability rights have ‘some way to go’

In 2007, the New Zealand Government signed and agreed to adhere to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD).

The UNCRPD is a human rights treaty that commits all signatories to preventing discrimination against disabled people. It also requires all countries that have signed it to prioritise and ensuredisabled people live on an equal basis with those who are non-disabled.

Sepuloni said the UNCRPD “certainly underpins decisions that are made”.

And while Williams said New Zealand has “made some great strides”, the country still has some way to go to fully adhering to it. “I don't think anyone would doubt that,” she said.

Williams said that the launch of Whaikaha aligned with the UNCRDP.

“I think the development of the ministry in conjunction with having disabled people at the heart of those conversations and being very critical about what their expectations are, I think these are important aspects to ensuring that.”

Sepuloni said there were gaps where the country was not following the UNCRPD as well as it could, especially around accessibility and breaking down the barriers to employment for disabled people.

“Those are a few areas. There's work to be done across, although I could sit here and rattle them off,” she said. “But knowing that and having a government that knows that and is doing work in all of those areas is what's important.”

Looking ahead, Sepuloni’s advice to Williams as the new minister for disability issues is to be excited and listen to disabled people.

“Listen to the community and to make sure that they are part of all of the discussions.”