Politicians grill Health NZ commissioner over finances and ‘North Korean’ practices

Wednesday, 18 September 2024

The two Health NZ - Te Whatu Ora leaders appeared at Health Select Committee on Wednesday and briefly spoke to media after about the organisation's finances,non-disclosure agreements, and Levy's second job.

Health New Zealand leaders have failed to provide a list of financial information to politicians in time for a grilling over the embattled agency’s books, which are reportedly headed for a $1.4 billion deficit.

Health NZ commissioner Dr Lester Levy, along with chief executive Margie Apa and three senior managers, were at Health Select Committee on Wednesday answering questions on the direction of the Crown agency, which runs the country’s hospitals.

But before the meeting, Labour’s health spokesperson Dr Ayesha Verrall had asked for detailed monthly and end of year financial statements, internal budgets, details on Holidays Act liabilities, a breakdown of monthly full-time equivalent staff since October 2023 and projections that informed the claims the agency was going to reach a $1.4b deficit.

Verrall wrote to committee chairperson, Sam Uffindell, on September 10 requesting these details by September 16.

“Proper scrutiny is important as Health NZ is operating without a board, without public sections to board meetings, without published board papers, and without publication of monthly accounts,” her letter said.

But they never arrived, with Levy instead telling the committee a “pack” of information would be provided by September 25.

Verrall said this limited effective scrutiny and she had not been given a clear reason why this could not be done.

She said the Government's claims about Health NZ's accounts were “yet to be evidenced by the release of any financial documentation”, and looked forward to seeing the pack Levy described.

Levy told the meeting that monthly financials would be released once he understood more about “what’s going on” and he would consider releasing minutes and agendas related to meetings, though had not contemplated it.

Chief executive of Health New Zealand Te Whatu Ora, Margie Apa, and Health Commissioner Professor Lester Levy attend a health select committee at Parliament.

But Levy said while the financial situation was “quite precarious” and “materialised suddenly”, it was not the most pressing issue.

“The main show in town is actually getting these waiting times down, ensuring that the services are safe and of high quality and creating an environment within the organisation that is is a rewarding environment for staff to work and we have got challenges across all of these domains.

“So a lot to do, but a high degree of optimism that we can restore Health New Zealand to a highly functional organisation delivering the kind of results that patients need and deserve.”

The Green Party’s Hūhana Lyndon asked where the Māori health plan was, which was under development at the now disestablished Māori Health Authority – Te Aka Whai Ora.

Labour’s health spokesperson Dr Ayesha Verrall quizzed Lester Levy at Health Select Committee asking for better transparency over finances.

Apa said the agency was waiting for the Ministry of Health to finish “rewriting the Māori health strategy” and release it, but hoped the plan would be released soon after that.

Use of non-disclosure agreements ‘North Korean’

Verrall asked how many of the panel accompanying Levy had signed non-disclosure agreements (NDAs), preventing staff from talking to others outside the organisation about certain things.

“I have no idea if anybody here has signed an NDA. I do not request anyone to sign an NDA,” Levy said.

Apa said NDAs were “a normal part of our organisation” and she has asked senior managers who were involved in budgets to sign NDAs.

Verrall challenged Levy on that, saying Health NZ was a public organisation and he had the power to remove the practice as commissioner. “They ask officials not to discuss their ideas. This is North Korean, get rid of it,” Verrall said.

“I’ve made my position clear, it’s not something I would ask for,” Levy said.

Levy spent a few minutes answering questions from reporters on his way out of select committee before leaving for the airport.

Speaking to reporters afterwards, Apa continued to defend the use of NDAs but said she would review the policy.

“The templates that I had did not ask staff to constrain ideas. That is absolutely part of what we want to encourage, free and frank exchange of ideas.

Levy defends second job

Today, The Post revealed the commissioner remains a professor at Auckland University of Technology two days a week, despite charging an annual fee of $320,000 to be commissioner.

Speaking after the meeting, Levy said he was comfortable he could do both jobs.

“It all works… I just interleave it. I’ve always had an academic post. The courses I teach are fully online, asynchronous courses…. there’s plenty time a week to do everything.”

Asked how many hours he was working as commissioner each week, he said: “at least 10-12, seven days a week. We just work like there’s no tomorrow.”

“I would say the least [hours] I've worked would be seven, and the day I've worked the most will be 15-and a-half [hours]. We often have meetings at 10.30 at night.”

He also argued he wasn’t “charging“ $320,000, but ”that’s the way the job has been set up, same as when I was the chair“.