James Shaw on working with business, Ardern and what next

Wednesday, 1 May 2024

Former Climate Change Minister and former co-leader of the Green Party James Shaw will give his last speech in Parliament this afternoon, almost 10 years since he delivered his maiden speech.

The actual resignation takes effect over the weekend, with incoming MP Francisco Hernandez entering Parliament next week.

Shaw’s plan after his resignation? Initially ‒ a break.

“I need one and … I need to unwind 10 years of politics to get my head straight before I start my next gig,” he told The Post on Tuesday night.

Asked a few questions about the next job, Shaw confirmed it had to do with climate change, “you’ll be shocked to learn”.

“I will tell you tomorrow night. All will be revealed,” he joked.

“I will still be completely focused on cutting our emissions. It's just using different tools.”

Asked how he balanced working with business with being Green Party co-leader, and what the future of the Green Party relationship with business would be, he said climate change was in every part of the economy. .

If we're going to reduce our emissions as a country, we're asking a whole lot of businesses to do that.

“It was really important to me that I had the kind of relationship where I could sit around the table with these folk and say, ‘Well, what are we going to do?…What support do you need from the government?’

“And sometimes that’s carrot, sometimes its stick. Sometimes it's a combo.”

Shaw said the nature of politics meant that as a spokesperson, or as a minister, you had to interact with constituencies or groups of people that you haven't necessarily had a strong relationship with in the past.

The top climate change issues he envisions New Zealanders will have to grapple with over the next 10 years will be a rise in insurance costs, “and there will be a government response that will help mitigate things”.

“I think the other thing that will probably affect most New Zealanders will be that we will start generating and consuming energy much more at home.”

Shaw told Q+A last Sunday there were times under the previous Government he came “really close” to resigning as Climate Change Minister.

Asked how his relationship with former Prime Minister Dame Jacinda Ardern was at the end, Shaw said the arguments were policy debates, ”they were never personal”.

“Whilst they were tough, I think both of us recognised that each of us had a role to play, each of us had a set of considerations we had to … deal with, and I would consider her a friend today, just as I did when we were starting.”

While he wouldn’t name names, he said there were a couple of difficult relationships during his political career.

“There are people who I won't talk to again and will cross the street to avoid ‒ but not many. I would say that I have, as a result of this process …three times more friends than enemies,” he laughed.

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon on Monday described Shaw as “a friend of mine from even before I came into politics, and he and I have always had a very good, strong, positive relationship”.

On who some of his favourite MPs outside his party were, Shaw said former Finance Minister Grant Robertson was “always one of the great pleasures”.

“He and I went out and did our dog and pony show every three years in Wellington Central, we actually became really quite close as a result of that.”

On the other side, former National MP Todd Muller.

“If I had to say at the start of my career who I thought I'd end up becoming good friends with, I wouldn't have picked a conservative Catholic from Tauranga. Given I’m a, sort-of, leftie from Aro Valley.

“But he has a real integrity … we built this trust, that even though we were politically a long way away from each other, that we were committed to getting the result that the country needed. And he became a good friend.”

Shaw’s happiest moment in Parliament?

“The day the Zero Carbon Act passed. Specifically the moment during (former National leader) Simon Bridges’ speech, where he said that National would be voting for the bill, because they hadn't 100% confirmed it with us at that point.

“And we also knew they had some tensions in the National Party caucus about it so it wasn't a sure-thing. (Bridges) had quite a big dramatic buildup and when he said National was going to vote for the bill, everyone in the public gallery and half the people in Parliament applauded.

“I just put my head kind of below my desk because I was just so relieved.”