Ruth Richardson pulls out of ‘circus’ debate with Nicola Willis
Tuesday, 16 December 2025
The stalemate over a mooted debate between Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Taxpayers’ Union chairperson Ruth Richardson has ended with Richardson breaking off negotiations, saying she will not be party to a “sideshow designed to distract from fiscal failure”.
Richardson, a former National Party finance minister who ruthlessly cut spending in the early 1990s, was challenged to a debate by Willis last week, ahead of a campaign from her lobby group attacking Willis from the right.
Ahead of the campaign’s launch Willis challenged Richardson to “come out of the shadows” and debate her directly on her “tolerance for human misery”.
“Instead of lurking in the shadows with secretly funded ads in the paper, come and debate me right here in Parliament,” Willis said.
READ MORE:
Half-year economic update: The fiscal plan that depends on nothing going wrong
Government’s return to surplus pushed back another year to 2030
She also mentioned the Taxpayers’ Union (TPU) in her speech from the Half-Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) on Tuesday, saying the lobby group’s proposal to end Working For Families would inflict far too much “human misery“.
Willis revealed at HYEFU that the Government would take a year longer to reach surplus than expected at the Budget in May ‒ 2030 instead of 2029.
But despite Willis suggestion she would debate Richardson “any time, anywhere” the logistical negotiations of who would moderate the debate and when it might happen have seen it called off for now.
Richardson had originally proposed Newstalk ZB as a host, and then a studio debate with economist Cameron Bagrie.
Willis has said she wanted a debate in Parliament with all media able to film, initially suggesting The Spinoff editor at large Toby Manhire as the moderator, given he has recently completed a podcast series on the 1990s.
The debate over the debate neared farce over the weekend as the lobby group accused Willis of wanting NZ First leader Winston Peters to moderate - a claim she strongly denies.
Richardson took aim at Willis’ performance in HYEFU and this “circus” as she pulled out of the debate on Tuesday.
“The debate was supposed to be about whether there is a credible pathway back to surplus; today’s numbers show there clearly isn’t one. Over the last two years, Minister Willis has pushed back surplus another three years. If there is a so-called ‘path to surplus’, Willis is walking the wrong way.”
“I will not be party to a circus or a sideshow designed to distract from fiscal failure.”
Responding to the Union, Willis said the offer of a debate in Parliament remained open.
“I am available, a venue is booked and I’m agreeable to any independent moderator. If Ruth doesn’t want to explain her policy proposals that’s up to her,“ Willis said.
“No further tweets need be entered into. I wish Ruth and all her team at the Taxpayers’ Union a very merry Christmas.”
Willis tweeted on Sunday that she had not pushed for Peters as moderator and had been fine with Bagrie.
“Barry Soper suggested Winston Peters as moderator, we indicated we had no problem with that if that was the TPU’s preference, nor do we have an issue with Cameron Bagrie as a moderator.”